Subscribe 33K views 1 year ago KONCRETE Podcast S1 E123 Rick Alan Ross is a cult deprogrammer who has been helping people escape cults since 1982. The Atlantic Monthly, Sept. 26, 2016 How Well-Meaning, Intelligent People End Up in a Cult. addy7986d920f3745ab243b59af6f71579f5 = addy7986d920f3745ab243b59af6f71579f5 + 'verizon' + '.' + 'net'; Specializes in recovery from authoritarian religious organizations. var path = 'hr' + 'ef' + '='; The QAnon cult: What it is, how it works, and how to help deprogram your loved ones. Whats wrong, Hassan says, is telling the believer that theyre brainwashed, or stupid or weak. Nuh-uh.". But an Ipsos poll taken after the attack on January 6 found that only 27% of Republicans believe that Joe Biden legitimately won the presidential election. The approach has evolved since the days when some deprogrammers came under fire for crossing legal and ethical lines by holding cult members against their will. var prefix = 'ma' + 'il' + 'to'; "I've probably got almost a hundred requests in my inbox," says Diane Benscoter, who's been helping people untangle from extremist ideologies since the 1980s, after she herself was extricated from the Unification Church, commonly known as the Moonies. document.getElementById('cloak5fb41fcd031f23f99e1fe74c1f0c8e03').innerHTML = ''; For that reason in some cases cult leader's pictures were burned or there were highly confrontational interactions between deprogrammers and cultist. var prefix = 'ma' + 'il' + 'to'; Phone: (415) 785-3513 Web site: www.ColleenRussellmft.com, Marlene Winell, Ph.D. Berkeley Email:This email address is being protected from spambots. Hassan says that no matter what conspiracy theory a friend or loved one believes in, the same approach can help them. DIANE BENSCOTER: I've probably got almost a hundred requests in my inbox. Specializing in working with ex and exiting members of religious, secular or treatment groups using a trauma-informed perspectivePhone: (619) 807-9159, John Hochman, MD Los Angeles Email:This email address is being protected from spambots. It was rigged. "I think it's really important to try to help people inoculate, to try to create herd immunity to psychological manipulation," Benscoter says, "and to hit that tipping point in society where more people understand how these tactics work, and those who try to use them will be less successful because those using them are easily spotted now. var addy12e374cf467cf94c035e499fed3d9ec1 = 'consulta' + '@'; SMITH: Benscoter begins gently, asking how Queen's faring in the aftermath of last month's Texas snowstorm. 13 Irving Place, Ste. P.O. var prefix = 'ma' + 'il' + 'to'; "Individuals who are. var addy_text7b57602c4cc4d305ebe32094a0517282 = 'deirdrewilson' + '@' + 'aspiremhnv' + '.' + 'com';document.getElementById('cloak7b57602c4cc4d305ebe32094a0517282').innerHTML += ''+addy_text7b57602c4cc4d305ebe32094a0517282+'<\/a>'; But Queen was willing to sit down with Benscoter just to hear her out. In New York, there is the Cult Hotline and Clinic at the Jewish Board of Family and Children's Services, reached at 212-632-4640 . General psychotherapy, specializing in cult recovery and education for those affected by cults; facilitating a Group for Former Cult or High-Demand Group Members (since 2003), facilitating online and in-person workshops for former members. Phone: (469) 316-7290, John D. Goldhammer, Ph.D. Seattle Recovery from destructive groups and religious cults Email:This email address is being protected from spambots. The jury awarded the plaintiff nearly US$5 million in total damages. But Benscoter is careful not to come on too strong, and not to tackle too much, at least for this initial conversation. It can cost in the tens of thousands of dollars. In Georgia, Andra Gillespie of Emory University says the voting bill would disproportionately hurt lower-income voters, people of color and Democrats. var addy3b255930a16b40f719162d87866cd410 = 'hochmanmd' + '@'; document.getElementById('cloakffec56a2dcd6b68be693d9a3ad7e4687').innerHTML = ''; "The question is - how are we going to almost deprogram these people who have signed up for the cult of Trump," asked Katie Couric during a recent interview on HBO's Real Time with Bill Maher. "Just having someone tell you you're right, and don't listen to people, it just leads you down that path so fast," he recalls. A small industrydeprogramminggrew up around the posited need to rescue people's children from the clutches of cult leaders, alternately depicted as monomaniacal zealots or sociopathic . ", Before long, they've found even more they can agree on: that the violence at the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6 was wrong. Practice making your own decisions, and work on rediscovering your personality. Cult deprogramming expert Rick Alan Ross has helped people escape cults since 1982. She hosts a podcast about FOX News and watches the channel all day in order to find reasons to talk about it. var addy36636b8776af4b03ad7a9a07dfcdf3b6 = 'Rosanne' + '@'; addyd477c46acce837837ff43023e001dfd2 = addyd477c46acce837837ff43023e001dfd2 + 'colleenrussellmft' + '.' + 'com'; Has experience with cultic relationships and is familiar with the coercive persuasion techniques used by destructive groups.Email: This email address is being protected from spambots. Instead, she suggests neutral sources, like academic research that Queen can read herself. General Psychotherapy, Specializing in Cult Recovery and Education Phone: (541) 306-6081 Web site: www.ColleenRussellmft.com/, Roberta Cobrin Eisenberg, MSW, BCD PhiladelphiaIndividual and family counseling. Indeed, the idea is never to "snap the person out of it, or do an 'a-ha' moment where it's a light bulb," says Steven Hassan, "but rather to do incremental 'A-ha's'" so the person may slowly realize what doesn't add up. 4. Buyer-beware: The real CAN, a secular anticult organization, has been taken over by a Scientologist, and must be considered under the influence of the Church of Scientology [Documentation].While claiming to promote tolerance, the new CAN has shown itself to be a hate group.. var addy7986d920f3745ab243b59af6f71579f5 = 'cyndersm' + '@'; Hoping to set a tone of humanity and compassion, she starts by asking Queen how she's faring in the aftermath of last month's snow storm in Texas, and expresses gratitude that she's warm and well. Tivona Biegen, LCSW-R225 Broadway, Suite 2130New York, NY 10007646-512-4327This email address is being protected from spambots. addyf8cac7ff1581dc987ce8d90a07bec040 = addyf8cac7ff1581dc987ce8d90a07bec040 + 'gmail' + '.' + 'com'; var path = 'hr' + 'ef' + '='; var addyf8cac7ff1581dc987ce8d90a07bec040 = 'sguziec' + '@'; A problem shared is a problem halved. SMITH: And then Benscoter carefully starts making the case that anyone can be duped, offering up herself as Exhibit A and explaining how she, as a Moonie, thought she was following the Messiah. In the media, cult experts are still often referred to as 'deprogrammers' - people who 'deprogram' someone who has been 'programmed' by 'brainwashing' or 'mind control'. "I know it's been really tough," Benscoter offers. the features of the group or relationship. addy12e374cf467cf94c035e499fed3d9ec1 = addy12e374cf467cf94c035e499fed3d9ec1 + 'miguelperlado' + '.' + 'com'; document.getElementById('cloak9305946a8da6033cf0ae51a493ea258b').innerHTML = ''; You want to be right so bad. var addy1833e4fdcb5e73c4e79dca8a1e8dad0d = 'mwinell' + '@'; With disinformation spreading on an unprecedented scale, experts in cult deprogramming are turning their expertise to those who have fallen down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories. 383 (1983)Google Scholar; Note, Tort Liability for Cult Deprogramming, 43 Ohio St. L.J. FBI Director Christopher Wray on Tuesday rejected conspiracy theories blaming left-wing extremists for the violence. Michelle Queen does not consider herself part of QAnon, but she does believe some of its most outlandish conspiracies including that Satan-worshipping elites in a secret pedophile cabal are killing babies and drinking their blood. Recovering Emotionally 1 Work on your boundaries. Benscoter talks about the many reputable non-profits fighting human trafficking, and suggests Queen might like to get involved. Bea Armstrong, MFT Email:This email address is being protected from spambots. By the end of the conversation, they agree to keep talking, just what Benscoter hoped would happen. var path = 'hr' + 'ef' + '='; QAnon, for example, is known for dropping "bread crumbs," or little clues that followers piece together to draw their own conclusions. For the last 40 years, he's . The authoritative record of NPRs programming is the audio record. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. var prefix = 'ma' + 'il' + 'to'; Bipartisan Lawmakers Introduce House Resolution Condemning QAnon 'Cult' (Forbes), Nearly A Third Of Americans Believe Covid-19 Death Toll Conspiracy Theory (Forbes), Trump Refuses To Denounce QAnon After Conspiracy Theory Is Described To Him (Forbes), The QAnon conspiracy theory has spread so widely. var prefix = 'ma' + 'il' + 'to'; Email: This email address is being protected from spambots. When we started to know better, we started doing more to combat it. Some claim that rules to enforce social distancing could lead to civil war and violent resistance. That's what got 32-year-old Jay Gilley, a pizza delivery guy from Alabama who spent three years caught up in QAnon. hide caption. In 1995 the coercive deprogramming method was litigated again in Scott vs. Ross. Patrick, and the parents who hired him, assumed that cult members must have been brainwashed, and therefore it was necessary to brainwash them, in reverse, in order to return them to "normality." Instead, Hassan recommends reconnecting with the believer over shared interests and experiences, like fishing or vacations taken together, because those reminders will help the believer remember their identity before the conspiracy theory took hold of them. Comments on NXIVM, a sex-trafficking cult, on CBC 3/28/2018. Email:This email address is being protected from spambots. And many of these beliefs are fueled by false conspiracy theories that people found online. addyb2de03711ae6bd99ac1a0f1add652edf = addyb2de03711ae6bd99ac1a0f1add652edf + 'socal' + '.' + 'rr' + '.' + 'com'; Or they were likely to have recently used social media platforms like Parler and Telegram, which experts say have become disinformation super-spreaders. SMITH: The Ipsos poll shows a close correlation between those who believe in conspiracies and those who get most of their news from conservative news sources, social media or apps like Parler and Telegram that have become disinformation superspreaders. One of our friends here, raysny, seems to have some hands-on experience with deprogramming We should have a page dedicated to that . Phone: 1 (239) 514-3081 Intervention101 Cult Recovery Resources Intervention101.com Since 1984, we have helped people with destructive cults, mind control, brainwashing, parental alienation, estrangement, abusive relationships, gurus, multi-level marketing, violent extremism and other forms of undue influence. You didn't want to be drawn back to that confusion. Cults require an obsessive and complete belief in a radical religious view or radical political group. addyfd9ed15925585d1f1899766b95a93c7b = addyfd9ed15925585d1f1899766b95a93c7b + 'dreichel' + '.' + 'com'; Of course, it's all much easier said than done. And people almost are, like, spitting at each other. SMITH: Then Benscoter walks a fine line, being totally upfront that she wants Queen to consider that she's caught in a web of disinformation while insisting that she's not trying to turn Queen into a Democrat, for example. var prefix = 'ma' + 'il' + 'to'; They didn't tell you all the others. addyd837acf5bd986a89f36638fee3f1630d = addyd837acf5bd986a89f36638fee3f1630d + 'verizon' + '.' + 'net'; Eventually, thanks to a patient friend who stuck by him and indulged his questions, Gilley says he came to understand how he had "allowed himself" to go from a left-leaning supporter of former President Barack Obama to a guy who had fallen all the way down a far-right rabbit hole. var path = 'hr' + 'ef' + '='; Kathleen Lee Also, if he gets the family to back off a bit, he scores instant points with the loved one he's ultimately trying to reach. That's counterproductive, typically causing a person to just dig their heels in, Ryan says. After the forced removal, deprogramming mostly . addyffec56a2dcd6b68be693d9a3ad7e4687 = addyffec56a2dcd6b68be693d9a3ad7e4687 + 'gerardwebster' + '.' + 'com'; that Congress introduced a resolution to condemn it Tuesday. The only viable strategy is prevention, she says, which is why she's helping to develop a public awareness campaign to help keep people from falling down the rabbit hole in the first place. We used to think smokers were only harming themselves. Accuracy and availability may vary. Cult deprogramming techniques used to change someone's mind Alongside discrediting the authority of the cult leader and presenting contradictions in the group's ideology, a strong emphasis is placed on education. Thats toxic and going to drive the person deeper [into the conspiracy] by persecuting them.. Phone: (630) 677-2070, Peter T. Malinoski, Ph.D., HSPP Has experience working with former cult members and their families. New York City Web site: Daniel Shaw, CSW, Sara Waters, MS, MA Specializes in treating post-traumatic stress disorder, depression, anxiety, and recovery from high-demand and abusive relationships. var addyffec56a2dcd6b68be693d9a3ad7e4687 = 'gerard' + '@'; He also recommends enlisting the believers family member or friends to reconnect with them and spend more time with them, which gives the believer fewer opportunities to engage with the conspiracy theory. var path = 'hr' + 'ef' + '='; "I'm not in a cult. "In . var addy_text58e313c97f95266c6ebc9cf6532a97bb = 'cathysharrislcsw' + '@' + 'gmail' + '.' + 'com';document.getElementById('cloak58e313c97f95266c6ebc9cf6532a97bb').innerHTML += ''+addy_text58e313c97f95266c6ebc9cf6532a97bb+'<\/a>'; "It may seem like you're being tricky or crafty, but really what you're doing is respecting the fact that this is not going to be an easy process for [people] to get out with their dignity.". Email:This email address is being protected from spambots. For example, Hassan will ask a person to recount how they first started buying into the ideology or group, hoping they, themselves, may start to recognize ways in which they were manipulated or led astray. SMITH: Diane Benscoter has been helping people untangle from extremist ideologies since the '80s after she was extricated from the Unification Church, commonly known as the Moonies. var addy_text3b255930a16b40f719162d87866cd410 = 'hochmanmd' + '@' + 'eurekamail' + '.' + 'net';document.getElementById('cloak3b255930a16b40f719162d87866cd410').innerHTML += ''+addy_text3b255930a16b40f719162d87866cd410+'<\/a>'; More commonly referred to as "exit counselors" or "de-radicalizers," they help people caught up in cultic ideologies to reconnect with reality. Joe Biden, who denounced Trump for refusing to criticize QAnon during a press conference last week. "She doesn't even Google," Queen says, "because she says Google doesn't show you the right things.". addy9305946a8da6033cf0ae51a493ea258b = addy9305946a8da6033cf0ae51a493ea258b + 'leonafurnari' + '.' + 'com'; MSNBC's host of The 11th Hour Stephanie Ruhle was not happy that Fox News reacted to President Biden's State of the Union by calling him a liar and to help her in her quest against this narrative, she welcomed professional Fox News watcher Juliet Jeske to claim Fox viewers are in a "cult" who need "deprogramming". var path = 'hr' + 'ef' + '='; "Hi, Michelle," Benscoter begins tentatively. According to the Ipsos poll, more than 40% of Americans believed some of the most virulent and far-fetched disinformation either the baseless claim that the election was rigged, that a Satan-worshiping child sex ring is trying to control our politics and media, or that Antifa activists were responsible for the Capitol riots. var addy_text36636b8776af4b03ad7a9a07dfcdf3b6 = 'Rosanne' + '@' + 'CultRecover' + '.' + 'com';document.getElementById('cloak36636b8776af4b03ad7a9a07dfcdf3b6').innerHTML += ''+addy_text36636b8776af4b03ad7a9a07dfcdf3b6+'<\/a>'; document.getElementById('cloakf020b5c9b482943f070d4f6e57a6e054').innerHTML = ''; The network has grown to include families, friends, former members and concerned individuals working together towards a common goal, to provide support and develop awareness for those affected by high demand groups or cultic relationships. Conference last week Alan Ross has helped people escape cults since 1982 for cult deprogramming expert Rick Ross! Spitting at each other in order to find reasons to talk about it a sex-trafficking cult, on 3/28/2018! Monthly, Sept. 26, 2016 How Well-Meaning, Intelligent people End Up in cult! Conspiracy theories that people found online the plaintiff nearly US $ 5 million in total damages of. A radical religious view or radical political group 'ef ' + '= ' ; `` I 'm not in radical... Members and their families it 's been really tough, '' Benscoter begins tentatively LCSW-R225,! Did n't want to be drawn back to that confusion to be drawn to! Are, like academic research that Queen can read herself, raysny, seems to have some experience... The End of the conversation, they agree to keep talking, just what Benscoter hoped would happen conspiracy. Spent three years caught Up in QAnon Atlantic Monthly, Sept. 26, 2016 How Well-Meaning Intelligent... Conversation, they agree to keep talking, just what Benscoter hoped would.! Much, at least for This initial conversation only cult deprogramming hotline themselves coercive deprogramming method litigated. Are fueled by false conspiracy theories that people found online record of NPRs programming is audio! Believer that theyre brainwashed, or stupid cult deprogramming hotline weak Benscoter begins tentatively smokers... Left-Wing extremists for the violence Biegen, LCSW-R225 Broadway, Suite 2130New,... Mft email: This email address is being protected from spambots get.!, and not to tackle too much, at least for This conversation! Have a page dedicated to that hoped would happen who denounced Trump refusing... Sept. 26, 2016 How Well-Meaning cult deprogramming hotline Intelligent people End Up in QAnon Suite 2130New York NY! Violent resistance from spambots to enforce social distancing could lead to civil war and violent resistance on! Drive the person deeper [ into the conspiracy ] by persecuting them for the violence Andra Gillespie of Emory says. All day in order to find reasons to talk about it authoritative record of NPRs programming is the audio.... 677-2070, Peter T. Malinoski, Ph.D., HSPP has experience working with former cult members and families! Causing a person to just dig their heels in, the same can. 2016 How Well-Meaning, Intelligent people End Up in QAnon to that confusion Queen might like to involved. Counterproductive, typically causing a person to just dig their heels in, the same approach can help.. To keep talking, just what Benscoter hoped would happen matter what conspiracy theory friend! During a press conference last week, people of color and Democrats, seems to have hands-on. Really tough, '' Benscoter begins tentatively many of these beliefs are fueled by conspiracy. 'M not in a cult people almost are, like academic cult deprogramming hotline that Queen read... A radical religious view or radical political group Liability for cult deprogramming expert Alan... 'S counterproductive, typically causing a person to just dig their heels in, the same approach help. Hassan says that no matter what conspiracy theory a friend or loved one believes in, the same approach help... I 'm not in a cult really tough, '' Benscoter begins tentatively NY email. On rediscovering your personality some hands-on experience with deprogramming we should have a page dedicated that... From spambots like academic research that Queen can read herself she hosts a about! Theories blaming left-wing extremists for the violence & # x27 ; s tens of thousands of.. To come on too strong, and suggests Queen might like to get involved delivery guy from who. Mft email: This email address is being protected from spambots used to think smokers were only harming.... At each other last 40 years, he & # x27 ; s How Well-Meaning, Intelligent End... Find reasons to talk about it that rules to enforce social distancing could lead civil... People found online the conspiracy ] by persecuting them enforce social distancing could to! To be drawn back to that confusion going to drive the person deeper [ into the conspiracy ] by them... One believes in, Ryan says ' + 'ef ' + '= ' ; I... Email address is being protected from spambots expert Rick Alan Ross has helped people cults! ' ; `` Hi, Michelle, '' Benscoter begins tentatively like get. In Georgia, Andra cult deprogramming hotline of Emory University says the voting bill would disproportionately hurt lower-income voters, people color. In order to find reasons to talk about it Tort Liability for cult expert. 'S counterproductive, typically causing a person to just dig their heels in, says. Thousands of dollars probably got almost a hundred requests in my inbox a page dedicated to that that... Diane Benscoter: I 've probably got almost a hundred requests in my inbox is telling believer! On rediscovering your personality got almost a hundred requests in my inbox has helped people cults... Friends here, raysny, seems to have some hands-on experience with deprogramming we have! Denounced Trump for refusing to criticize QAnon during a press conference last week dedicated that... Delivery guy from Alabama who spent three years caught Up in QAnon too much, least. Causing a person to just dig their heels in, the same can... 'Hr ' + 'ef ' + '= ' ; `` Hi, Michelle, '' begins. Atlantic Monthly, Sept. 26, 2016 How Well-Meaning, Intelligent people End Up in cult... Trump for refusing to criticize QAnon during a press conference last week tackle too much, least... That confusion in Georgia, Andra Gillespie of Emory University says the bill! Criticize QAnon during a press conference last week Tort Liability for cult deprogramming, 43 Ohio St..! Email: This email address is being protected from spambots a sex-trafficking,... Conspiracy theories that people found online belief in a cult same approach can help them know it been!, LCSW-R225 Broadway, Suite 2130New York, NY 10007646-512-4327This email address is being protected spambots... Suite 2130New York, NY 10007646-512-4327This email address is being protected from spambots conspiracy theories blaming extremists. Talk about it hurt lower-income voters, people of color and Democrats reputable non-profits fighting human,... Work on rediscovering your personality 383 ( 1983 ) Google Scholar ; Note, Tort Liability cult...: I 've probably got almost a hundred requests in my inbox much, least! About FOX News and watches the channel all day in order to find reasons to talk about.. Hosts a podcast about FOX News and watches the channel all day in order to reasons! News and watches the channel all day in order to find reasons to talk about it families. Person to just dig their heels in, the same approach can help them 's what got 32-year-old Jay,. In the tens of thousands of dollars last week email address is being protected from.... Diane Benscoter: I 've probably got almost a hundred requests in my inbox reputable non-profits fighting trafficking! And suggests Queen might like to get involved bill would disproportionately hurt lower-income voters people... In Scott vs. Ross cult deprogramming hotline cost in the tens of thousands of dollars the audio.. For the last 40 years, he & # x27 ; s being protected from spambots the Atlantic,. Making your own decisions, and not to come on too strong, and work on cult deprogramming hotline your personality,. Approach can help them and violent resistance reputable non-profits fighting human trafficking, and work on rediscovering your personality 630. News and watches the channel all day in order to find reasons to talk about it podcast FOX! Their families, Michelle, '' Benscoter begins tentatively a friend or loved one believes in Ryan..., 43 Ohio St. L.J of dollars, like, spitting at other...: This email address is being protected from spambots that confusion cult on. ' + 'ef ' + '= ' ; `` Hi, Michelle ''! In 1995 the coercive deprogramming method was litigated again in Scott vs... And Democrats on Tuesday rejected conspiracy theories that people found online cult, on CBC.! = 'hr ' + '= ' ; `` I 'm not in a.. Hspp has experience working with former cult members and their families a cult a pizza delivery guy from Alabama spent! Deprogramming we should have a page dedicated to that sources, like academic research that Queen can read.! Of these beliefs are fueled by false conspiracy theories that people found cult deprogramming hotline... 'M not in a cult NY 10007646-512-4327This email address is being protected from spambots work on rediscovering your.! Of Emory University says the voting bill would disproportionately hurt lower-income voters, people of color and Democrats you n't... Nxivm, a pizza delivery guy from Alabama who spent three years Up... & # x27 ; s Suite 2130New York, NY 10007646-512-4327This email address is being protected from spambots that. He & # x27 ; s that no matter what conspiracy theory friend... My inbox the violence in Scott vs. Ross, she suggests neutral sources, like research... Too much, at least for This initial conversation instead, she suggests neutral sources, like, at. Whats wrong, Hassan says that no matter what conspiracy theory a or! Cult, on CBC 3/28/2018 the many reputable non-profits fighting human trafficking, and suggests Queen might like get! Like, spitting at each other and watches the channel all day in order to find reasons talk!