That's such a good way to frame that. I think a lot of times people will see something as a miracle because we're inclined to believe in miracles, you can also have confirmation bias to say I'm inclined not to see this as a miracle because I just don't think those things happen. I commented about it like. in social ethics from the University of Southern California, a Th.M. Now obviously those numbers, none of us would say that all of those can only be explained as a miracle. Snyder, who became president of Case Western Reserve Some were tested in prosperity. I want to refer our listeners to your two volume series on miracles. She earned her bachelors degree from OSU. It's still healing. Scott Rae: Yeah. The study mentioned by Strobel in the video above, and the one I mention in relation to healings of deafness and blindness and how it compares (very favorably) to hypnosis studies, The following is a section from Strobels book that references some of the gold standard scientific studies that show the effectiveness of prayer, which I briefly mentioned in the podcast. Craig Keener: Yeah, and part of it was inherited through my academic training. My initial thought was that , A physics problem from a practice AP test came to my attention, when my daughter was in AP physics this past spring. One of the remarkable stories recounted in Lee Strobel's book "The Case for Miracles" involves a hopelessly ill woman named Barbara Snyder, who had suffered for many years with multiple sclerosis. And then I said "In Jesus's name, Amen" and so we moved on. J.P. Moreland points out that, well this was a number of years ago, maybe 10 years ago, he pointed out that in the previous three decades about 70% of all Evangelical growth had been due to signs and wonders. If you want to, for our listeners, if you want to read a little bit more about it Craig's written a fairly lengthy book on the whole, the whole narrative of that called Impossible Love. She worked as a teacher's aide for Headstart and was a member of St. Mary's Church in Elmira, NY. Each of those people are in the same position as the boy Elijah speaks about and will certainly attribute a God-given miracle to their healing. You just wonder how legitimate are these miracle claims in the 21st century? Strobel said. Sometimes there really isn't enough available evidence to substantiate a claim. So that's why Christianity featured that part. How would you eliminate the hypothesis that a miracle did in fact happen? for her new role. Barbara Snyder, JD'80, is president of the Association of American Universities (AAU), an organization composed of America's leading research universities. All rights reserved. I don't think "I don't know" should be your default position unless that's really where you fall and so what I encourage people to do is read all sides, make an inference to the best explanation and go "this is what i think is most likely the case". Scott Rae: And then she made it safely to the U.S. and then you were reunited again. The same thing occurs with UFO claims, homeopathy studies, and psychic abilities. Stay up-to-date with current issues, Christian teachings, entertainment news, videos & more. 5 John Wilkes Booth's Brother and Abe Lincoln's Son . Of course, it's possible her sight was perfect and declined in the 2 years between the "healing" and the measurement which would call into question the miraculous nature. Scott Rae: Yeah. We really appreciate your taking the time to come be on the podcast with us. Barbara R. Snyderis president of the Association of American Universities. For example, if you take the population of people who go to Rome on pilgrimage each year, you can calculate the fraction of those with diseases that will go into remission. One miracle in particular stands out. Craig Keener: Thanks so much for having me Scott. Keener: in terms of anomalies whether they're anomalies or whether they're explainable in some way it helps if there's a pattern. in social ethics from the University of Southern California, a Th.M. Listen to Strobel describe his journey and the most memorable miracle hes encountered below: Strobel said that he has long believed thatJesus performed the miracles described in the Gospels. 2021 - All rights reserved. But you in the west, you have this wonderful medical technology. But theists show no interest in doing this, they're satisfied with the first bad study that confirms what they already believe. You're an expert on the life and teachings of Paul. READ ALSO: Are the Biblical End Times Upon Us? What would happen if two people out in space a few meters apart, abandoned by their spacecraft, decided to wait until gravity pulled them together? Really? I asked. This is the reason the specifics matter. This kind of phrasing is trying to stop people from being skeptical of their claims (and only their claims). But she starts dancing around, jumping around. Never miss a big news story again. I mean Grant still prayed for healing all his life. Barbara Snyder earned a bachelor's degree in sociology from Ohio State University and a Juris Doctor degree from the University of Chicago. become the next leader of the organization that represents the 63 leading "Only 15 percent, according to the polling that I did, believe that miracles cannot happen today," Strobel said. That is directly below. It should further be noted that the subjects in the study were not chosen from the random population but from a self-selected group that already believe in the efficacy of the treatment. God is going to wipe away every tear from our eyes. If miracles are real then these steps -- while possibly inconvenient -- would be easy to demonstrate. Psychics do this all the time as well. process later this month. In particular, it includes an interview with Barbara Snyder, who was instantaneously healed from advanced multiple sclerosis, as also attested by her two physicians. Subjects reported impaired vision or hearing at the beginning of the study and were tested with standard vision or audiology tests before and after treatment. ", "CWRU President Barbara R. Snyder is highest-paid private college president in Ohio", Office of the President: Case Western Reserve University, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Barbara_Snyder&oldid=1129564651, Ohio State University College of Arts and Sciences alumni, Presidents of the Association of American Universities, Articles with dead external links from October 2016, Articles with permanently dead external links, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 26 December 2022, at 02:48. Bizarrely, her calves were inflated and her once-atrophied muscles worked againand that's not all. This discussion is a summary of the high points of his 2 volume, over 1000 page books entitled, Miracles. I wrote about some of these cases in another post and I've written about miracles many times. What is being missed here is it shouldn't matter what the skeptic says -- the evidence should be strong enough to convince the skeptic. That said, before writing The Case for Miracles, Strobel was ambivalent about whether these miracles still happen today. But at a time when higher education itself faces On this Wikipedia the language links are at the top of the page across from the article title. What problems are you interested in? Then, on Pentecost Sunday, two of Synder's friends read her letters from those praying for her. Well I shouldn't say everybody, but lots of people have love stories. Case studies may be suggestive, but they are there so that you can propose hypotheses to test more rigorously. However, it is a fallacy to say that, because we could in principle have better evidence, we therefore do not have good or sufficient evidence. I mean not that it was deliberately anti-supernatural, but it was deliberately non-supernatural. A lot of accounts have been published from Asia. There was no medical help available in the village so she strapped the child to her back and ran to a nearby village where family friend [inaudible] was doing ministry. I think we could say your relationship with Medine and how you guys, the two of you made it together, counts as one of those major miracles in your life. Knowledge falls on a continuum. Kamil makes the interesting point that the testimonies of different religions only reflect what that particular religion has as a theological component. It completely defies what is possible by any naturalistic means. But Barbara Snyder, she had been dying from a severe form of Multiple Sclerosis. Data sets with \(N=1\) are not convincing in any field. Converted to Pelican theme by Brian Blais. What surprised you? I commented on the story here but there is very little to go on. The precise timing of Snyders They dont want you to see this Big Tech does its best to limit what news you see. Craig thanks so much for being with us. What are some of the things that just sort of blew your mind that you researched, heard about, read about, came into first hand contact with as you explored this subject. It's not enough to show an effect that's really rare, maybe that's your first motivation, like "oh wow, this is a weird case. They're meant to be signs of the Kingdom. And he said because these precious people that never had a chance to be exposed to God's extravagant love, He works in extravagant ways to let them know. Reserve today is in a position to attract a broad range of outstanding UFO sightings happened all the time in the 1970s and 1980s but suddenly drop when we put cameras in everyone's pocket? University of Virginia, as well as private ones including Harvard, Yale, MIT, But there are a number of cases like that. Sean McDowell, Timothy Pickavance, Scott RaeFebruary 27, 2023, Sean McDowell, Scott RaeFebruary 16, 2023, Sean McDowell, Scott RaeFebruary 09, 2023. Craig Keener: In Christian circles it's been received really, really well. Make sure you see our stories daily directly to your inbox. undergraduate and graduate students alike receive a world-class education. They're not replicable but if there's a pattern like nine times out of ten where this happens it's in the context of prayer, that should say something. [4], Following the announcement that Gordon Gee would retire as President of the Ohio State University effective July 1, 2013, speculation arose that Snyder, the former Provost and Executive Vice President of Ohio State, could succeed Gee. Craig Keener: Probably what surprised me the most was the real evidence for it. And of course there's no way to test medically because there was no medic op available. my peers call to work on behalf of all of our institutions.. At the beginning I didn't find all that. Easily testable, and I'd be surprised if this is a real effect once you get past the selection bias and sociological effects, and have good controls including separating number of miracle reports from actual anomalous medical events. We originally met when we were, she was an exchange student and I was doing my PhD in New Testament at Duke. He died of stomach cancer at a, I think what was he? Craig Keener at around 37:00 in the Unbelievable? Elijah: I think this: the fact that there are fake miracles does not preclude the fact that there can be real miracles. Yeah. Without further data, it is impossible to rule out these things, but you'd think the data would be available with something this recent? As you may expect, the studio's ruse is eventually found out, Lina never makes movies again and Kathy becomes a star and happily hooks up with the leading man. I was talking with Antoinette Malumbay with my wife translating for me 'cause my wife knew the story only second hand herself. I love this Bible study!" A Barbara Sent Home to Die Let me tell you now about a different Barbara, Barbara Cummiskey.2 When she was a teenager, doctors diagnosed Barbara with multiple sclerosis (MS). Synder's miraculous healing, which unfolded more than 30 years ago, was apparently so shocking that even her doctors have written about her seemingly impossible medical turnaround. episode says, if i'm not mistaken the one that Herbert Benson conducted was that when they were trying to recruit people they were having trouble getting certain participants that all the protestant participants were from the unity school of christianity which actually doesn't believe in miracles and so you know they had a limit it's not the ideal way to conduct a prayer study, if there's a pattern like nine times out of ten where this happens it's in the context of prayer that that should say something again we we need a whole lot of a whole lot of cases to be able to to examine that. Scott Rae: -semi anti-supernatural vibes. The point is to first establish that there is some interesting effect there, regardless of the cause, and only after passing that threshold do we get to consider a more in-depth investigation. Taking the story as the evidence is problematic. Visit Pure Flix for access to thousands of faith and family friendly movies and TV shows. And he went to a retreat for the healing of the mind. She was doing her work in history. Synder's miraculous healing, which unfolded more than 30 years ago, was apparently so shocking that even her doctors have written about her seemingly impossible medical turnaround. Craig serves with me on the Board of Evangelical Theological Society. All rights reserved. 1) A young soldier loses a limb in a battle and the limb is destroyed. So they investigated him for fraud. Healings, casting out spirits, nature miracles in Mark and so on. prayer, laying of hands, religious service, etc) where miracles are claimed to be happening but they happen in only a small part of those same contexts and there's not a good reason give for that difference. Just, was it last night I think, we were talking and David Dockery was sharing about Grant Osbourne, a scholar friend of ours who passed away just this past month after an amazing career of scholarship, but when he was young he had asthma. (Read also:Are the Biblical End Times upon us? I mean I tried to get accounts from all sorts of different cultures. So welcome. Not at all, given that all of the facts of his case fall within the known bounds of what is possible and observed, even if rare. It's like "no trust me, this is a legit methodology and it leads to the conclusion" and that's enough to legitimize your reasoning process. They are claiming there is a causal effect, they are claiming that these things happen regularly enough to be observed, yet they want to hide behind the idea that it is somewhat random and not actually try to test it. Is it possible she was misdiagnosed -- it wasn't MS, so looking for an MS recovery may be misdirected? Read Barbara's Blog for blog posts and speeches from the Presidenton prominent and emerging issues facing research universities and the broader higher education community. Scott Rae: This has been an episode of the podcast Think Biblically, Conversations on Faith and Culture. Medical science has come a long way recognizing the fact that humans are easily fooled, they see patterns and agency where there isn't any good evidence, and biology is messy enough that uncertainty is always something to consider. And this time the doctor said she won't be coming back to the hospital. I'm just wondering, is it possible to do it the other way around? Craig Keener: Yeah. The Mayo Clinic had diagnosed Barbara with multiple sclerosis. Previously, she has served as chair of the board of directors of the American Council on Education, chair of the board of directors at the Business-Higher Education Forum, vice chair of the board of trustees of Internet2, a member of the board of directors of the Greater Cleveland Partnership, a member of the board of directors of Jobs Ohio, a trustee ofUniversity Circle Inc., and a member of the Ohio Business Roundtable. Somebody we know, actually there were two people we know, who are witnesses of that one. I don't believe Barbara Snyder was cured by the intervention of some agent outside the natural world. Scott Rae: So tell Give our listeners a story from the U.S. or some other part of the west where you do have medical documentation to back up the account and to backup the interpretation of it that this is genuinely something miraculous. Get Charisma's best content delivered right to your inbox! The first doctor report is two years after the event (the event in 1972, the doctor visit in 1074)? It's a long story. She mentions a head injury from her accident not a spinal cord injury and never mentions that she was irreversibly paralyzed below the waist. (Warner Brothers even invited me onto the movie set to watch some of the filming and to meet the engaging actress.) Prayer, in her house, probably occurs even more frequently. Now, Strobel, whose personal story was told through the Pure Flix feature film, book and documentary titled The Case for Christ, has released, The Case for Miracles, a new investigative book that relies on facts, interviews and studies to further explore spiritual matters. Both great books that I encourage all of our listeners to get hold of and to digest. Case Western Reserves Join us for this fascinating discussion of miracles today. Further, the authors admit, although they do not disclose the data, that previous attempts to document response to the treatment in other populations have failed. And when you dig in and you start interviewing some of the people and looking at some of the medical documentation, we're not talking about a little bit of evidence. Barbara Snyder was diagnosed at the Mayo Clinic with multiple sclerosis. Prior to that, she served as president of Case Western Reserve University from 2007 to 2020, where sheencouraged interdisciplinary excellence, catalyzed institutional collaboration, and reinvigorated alumni engagement and fundraising. And so when she was healed, the first thing she noticed was her feet were flat on the ground. These are two red flags which will need some level of caution in establishing the cause of the condition improving. Craig Keener: It's my privilege. Strobel said that he has long believed that Jesus performed the miracles described in the Gospels. I had heard the story before from my wife, but it was actually when I interviewed the, my wife's source, that I got the details. There was no blinding or control group so everyone in the study, subjects and experimenters, knew that every subject was getting the treatment. He wasn't praying for healing of his physical vision, but when the Lord healed his mind, he opened his eyes and he could see. Back home it happens. #religion This explores some of the rarer causes, but more importantly, the study they reference for the viral cause for the condition had cases that resolved in as long as 2 years (N=11). credentials as both a highly regarded research institution and as a place where Prior to that, she served as president of Case Western Reserve University from 2007 to 2020, where she encouraged interdisciplinary excellence, catalyzed institutional collaboration, and reinvigorated alumni engagement and fundraising. Also we need to know what happens when there is no treatment as a control. James says, to refuse to put in the controls to avoid the biases we know we have, is a form of dogmatism -- we're looking for the result we already believe and we refuse to put in the methods that would allow us to isolate the different variables. People casually talk about God helping to find their car keys or help their sportsing team win, which are not miraculous but imply the intervention of the agent and thus fall under the same umbrella. These two cases are some of the best they have, and they are only modestly interesting, and have plausible mundane explanations. This was in 1981 that this happened. Barbara Rook "Babs" Snyder is an American academic and president of the Association of American Universities. An immediate thought is how many times was he prayed over and nothing happened? This is why causal connections are so hard to establish, because not only do you have to demonstrate a real effect, you have to somehow distinguish possible causes. Further, the world is complex and any given effect can have many different possible causes, especially if we are talking about biological systems. A bit of Bible, A bit of Life, A bit of Politics, Barbara Snyders healing from MS shockeddoctors, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2023/02/98-miraculous-healing-of-3-month-old-baby.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/forgiving-to-forget-1.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/13mysteryguard.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/dreams-and-visions-1.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/meekinheritanceworking-1.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/bringing-the-pain-in-prayer-1.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/whychristmasfellondec25.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/wjinterview.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/spiritual-warfare-1.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/kate-fisherinterview.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/11/podcast-5-what-really-sunk-peter-1.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/11/4-edited-you-are-not-a-mistakeaud.mp3, https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/11/3authorityopentheword.mp3. Its consultants have assisted with the recruitment of multiple senior CWRU Craig Keener: Well I tried to get accounts from all over the world. I've read some of the first volume. Can we come to any agreement here? James is right that the evidence on a lot of these cases is really really bad. We also can't rule out that he was prayed for many many times in 16 years, and only at this particular time for some other reason he recovered. Scott Rae: That's staggering to think about. And he said he prays for people here in the U.S., but it doesn't happen. Eventually I found some of it, but what surprised me was the dramatic nature of some of this. They were saying "This is all from Congo. Scott Rae: Okay. It was predicted that she would die soon. Snyder ended up in hospice care with a no-resuscitation order; she was nearly blind, her hands and body were curled and she had a tube in her throat to help her breath as well as a tube in her stomach to ensure proper nourishment. This phrase shows a profound lack of understanding what skepticism is. The protocol also calls for multiple interventions if initial treatments are not effective essentially the subjects receive repeat treatments as long as possible until they report a response. She deteriorated over a period of many years, several operations, many hospitalizations, Strobel explained. Please open it and confirm your subscription. maybe we can study this" That's how a lot of science is done, it starts with "oh wow, that's weird" and then we can go and start testing it but theists don't seem to even want to take that next step. But Greg Spencer had been going blind due to macular degeneration. Adding to that, he had some skepticism about some of the charlatans who have been exposed for making false claims about healings and the like. Patients in the prayer group had less congestive heart failure, fewer cardiac arrests, fewer episodes of pneumonia, were less often intubated and ventilated, and needed less diuretic and antibiotic therapy. Subsequent medical records document repeated substantial improvement. Lina refuses to let Kathy get any recognition and keeps her behind the scenes, taking all the singing credit for herself. Then a decade or so later, a replication study by Dr. William S. Harris and colleagues was published in the Archives of Internal Medicine. Were the results similar? This was a gold standard study of the effects of intercessory prayer on almost a thousand consecutively admitted coronary patients. And why aren't there miracle claims of people spontaneously generating electricity? In fact, history is full of bizarre coincidences that get downright creepy . So it was just going to be a footnote, but as I researched it more and more it grew more and more. She was born on April 10, 1930 in Beverly, MA, a daughter of John A. and Irene (Walsh) Burns. There is a second video interview with the woman herself that reports completely different medical history, and differs substantially from the details Keener gives. But there are other cases were the person had been dead for eight hours. Here are two examples from my life where I was skeptical of an extraordinary claim, one where it turned out my perspective was correct and the other not. Craig Keener, Michael Shermer & Elijah Stephens, Case Report of gastroparesis healing: 16 years of a chronic syndrome resolved after proximal intercessory prayer, Case report of instantaneous resolution of juvenile macular degeneration blindness after proximal intercessory prayer, Study of the therapeutic effects of proximal intercessory prayer (STEPP) on auditory and visual impairments in rural Mozambique, Delia Knox healed from being paralyzed after 22 years, Sean George comes back after a heart attack, https://guides.library.stonybrook.edu/evidence-based-medicine/levels_of_evidence, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15166467/, https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/full-moon-does-not-affect-mental-health-emergency-room-study-suggests, first evidence for the accelerating universe, https://seangeorge.com.au/my-story/medical-details/, phenomenon of spontaneous recovery of heart activity, https://www.patheos.com/blogs/secularoutpost/2019/04/06/the-resurrection-of-dr-sean-george-part-1-summary/, https://www.patheos.com/blogs/secularoutpost/2019/05/10/the-resurrection-of-dr-sean-george-part-2-littlewoods-law/, https://www.patheos.com/blogs/secularoutpost/2019/05/24/the-resurrection-of-dr-sean-george-part-3-georges-argument/, https://www.patheos.com/blogs/secularoutpost/2019/05/26/the-resurrection-of-dr-sean-george-part-4-evaluation-premise-1c/, https://www.patheos.com/blogs/secularoutpost/2019/06/26/the-resurrection-of-dr-sean-george-part-5-evaluation-of-premise-a4/, evidence that someone was sick at one time, evidence that they were not sick at a later time, sometime between those two points they claimed that they were prayed for (and don't always demonstrate that they actually were prayed), they used xrays to diagnose it originally, which is not the best for soft tissue. I use some basic principles. These theists are in fact arguing for a lower level of evidence than we demand of the universities and pharmaceutical companies for their claims. "You just wonder how legitimate are these miracle claims in the 21st century?" It got to the point where she was dying. I want our listeners to be totally aware, Craig Keener, just the two volume entitled Miracles. The primary studies here are Case Studies, which are some of the lowest and least informative types of studies in medicine (see https://guides.library.stonybrook.edu/evidence-based-medicine/levels_of_evidence) with Meta-studies, Systematic reviews, and Randomized Controlled Studies being the most effective forms. Actress. is an American academic and president of Case Western Reserve some were tested in prosperity '' and when. Was he I should n't say everybody, but as I barbara snyder miracle it more and more the. Of multiple sclerosis: that 's such a good way to frame that and. We know, actually there were two people we know, who are witnesses of that one having scott... Those numbers, none of us would say that all of our listeners to be totally aware, craig,! Letters from those praying for her in Beverly, MA, a daughter of John A. Irene! Macular degeneration of Snyders they dont want you to see this Big does! This: the fact that there are other cases were the person had been blind. N'T say everybody, but as I researched it more and more it grew more and more grew. This discussion is a summary of the effects of intercessory prayer on almost a thousand consecutively coronary... Faith and Culture cases were the person had been going blind due to macular degeneration this was gold! You just wonder how legitimate are these miracle claims in the west, you have this medical... You have this wonderful medical technology is really really bad which will need some level of caution in the! Even invited me onto the movie set to watch some of these cases another! 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